Posts by Bungi Bill

66

New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures

by Quendi in

i know this has been discussed before, but i want to reopen the topic.

i am currently reading ray franz's memoir crisis of conscience and ran across this footnote with respect to the new world translation of the holy scriptures:.

"the new world translation bears no translator's name and is presented as the anonymous work of the "new world translation committee.

Bungi Bill

Further to the scholastic achievements of F.W. Franz, his two years of studies in the Greek language were spent almost entirely studying Modern Greek, not Koine Greek.

As to his proficiency with the Hebrew language, he left himself wide open to suspicion during the Walsh trial of 1954, in Scotland.

- For sure, he only said "he wouldn't - not couldn't" translate a bible verse into Hebrew / he was asked to translate English into Hebrew, not vice versa / the trial was about JWs being a religion, not about bible translations / the Crown Solicitor was just trying to be a bully / etc. etc. etc.

- However, the best that can be said from that incident is this; if Fred Franz was indeed capable of translating that English sentence into Hebrew, then he surely could have handled the matter much better than he did. (Incidentally, the claim that it is harder to translate English in to another language than the other way is a hollow one from my experience - during all the years that I used the Tok Pisin language of Papua New Guinea during my everyday work, I never found it harder to translate English into Tok Pisin than the other way around).

Scholars of the Biblical Languages have mainly given the New World Translation a bad review. The only scholar that I know who had favorable things to say about it was Alexander Thompson - at the time Advisor to The Queen on Biblical Languages. (All of us used to carry with us a photocopy of his testimonial of the NWT - to wave in the faces of anybody who questioned its accuracy!)

Bill.

98

The "WOW!!" moment...Theocratic Ministry School was a sham!

by Terry in

jw
friends

i just remembered something from long ago..... i moved to california in 1974 after i had been in "the truth" for 11 years, having full-time pioneered and also having served time in federal prison over the so-called christian neutrality issue.. i felt completely confident that my bible education was the best on planet earth.

i had honed my skills by door to door preaching, discussion, arguments and attendance at the theocratic ministry school.. i began working as an artist in a huge company that manufactured all kinds of art, sculpture and wall hanging.

the head of the artists was a wonderful young man, skilled artist and devout christian who took me under his wing.

Bungi Bill

Terry,

I notice these days that all the JWs who call on me seem only too pleased to have an excuse to disengage from the enemy, and flee the field!

Towards the end of my time with the Witnesses, i.e. during the late 1980s / early 1990s, I noticed a growing reluctance to continue a conversations with anyone wishing to dispute a point.

Partly, I put this down to lack of practice.

Our congregation's territory took in part of a large low cost housing area:

- Jehovahs Witnesses, being nearly always in the lower socio-economic group (if not originally from it, certainly driven there by WTS policies), were attracted to such areas by necessity.

- Consequently, all the congregations in this vast area were spilling over with "publishers", and the territory was being covered every one to two weeks.

- People were utterly sick of us calling at their homes, the list of "Do Not Calls" almost equalled the number of homes where it was comparitavely safe to call at, most resident's vocabulary appeared to consist of little more than that "Fornication Under Consent of the King" word, and you were lucky even to reach their front door before being turned away.

- Getting into any sort of a conversation (let alone a deep one) was a notable exception.

- The only ones that showed any inclination to talk to us (if "talk to us" is an accurate description under those circumstances!) were ones from the more fundamantalist fringe groups of the Christian churches. These ones, though, were usually not too brilliant themselves - and only wanted to condemn us all to hellfire and damnation - not the sort of people you could get into a rational debate with (Though Rutherford and his sidekicks sound like they would have fitted quite well into that sort of a situation!).

Consequently, when the double exception was encountered - i.e. you met somebody who knew what they were talking about, AND was inclined to carry out a discussuion - the average JW was automatically placed in a position in which they had had no previous experience.

Incidentally, all agreed that the counsel / training / a#$ kicking - call it what you will - at the Kingdom Hall had very little relevance to reality, at least in our congregation's territory. Certainly, the WTS's claim that the "Territory is never worked to Death - only worked to Life" proved to be a very hollow one indeed!

This contrasted very much with the congregation I was with as a pioneer, some 20 years before that. That was in both an area and an era in which "Alerternate Lifestyles" were very much in vogue. The territory contained a large number of non-conformists - ranging from Hippies to Communists to the various Eastern Religions. Yet another non-conformist group such as JWs only attracted (usually) favorable attention, and you could get into some very interesting discussions with other non-conformists. Every time you went out in "service", you had opportunity to hone your (admittedly flawed) skills learned at the Kingdom Hall.

It would seem that these days, the JWs do not even have those opportunities anymore.

Bill.

40

JWs who do a "disappearing act" because of damaging gossip and trouble in the hall

by LongHairGal in

i know of a few jw friends who from time to time have to do a disappearing act from their hall.

one jw finds a "reason" to leave town to visit relatives and another jw would go to "visit" another hall in a nearby vicinity.

in all honesty, they are fleeing from the strife in the kingdom hall when they are in the spotlight.

Bungi Bill

In the seventeen years since I broke with them, I have never seen any worse examples of people being shredded by gossip than what I saw amongst the JWs .

Also, as already noted, elder's wives are often as not at the forefront of destroying others with gossip:

- its victims are not always just other sisters, either.

Bill.

67

You'll lose your life and that of your children if you don't come back

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

it was a beautiful, sunny day.

i was in the supermarket doing an early morning shop when i see an old friend of the family, a jw sister.. she asked me if i'd gone to the memorial and i told her no.

she said that the end is so close what with all the earthquakes and brother truthseeker, you need to come back to jehovah otherwise you will die and so will your children.

Bungi Bill

A question was recently raised on another thread as to whether it is love or fear that motivates the JWs.

With remarks like this one so common place (they tried to use this same guilt trip on my parents, when we were children), what other answer can there be but FEAR!

Bill.

40

For Those Who Went: How "Special" Was Sunday's "Special Talk?"

by Room 215 in

jw
friends

comments anyone?.

Bungi Bill

There will always be somebody around that has to be different - no matter what.

Regarding those who described the Special Talk as "Awesome", I would hate to see their idea of "Bloody Awful"!

Bill.

98

The "WOW!!" moment...Theocratic Ministry School was a sham!

by Terry in

jw
friends

i just remembered something from long ago..... i moved to california in 1974 after i had been in "the truth" for 11 years, having full-time pioneered and also having served time in federal prison over the so-called christian neutrality issue.. i felt completely confident that my bible education was the best on planet earth.

i had honed my skills by door to door preaching, discussion, arguments and attendance at the theocratic ministry school.. i began working as an artist in a huge company that manufactured all kinds of art, sculpture and wall hanging.

the head of the artists was a wonderful young man, skilled artist and devout christian who took me under his wing.

Bungi Bill

If all you knew of the Christian churches is what you learned from the WTS, then you would indeed have a totally skewed view of things:

- a bit like having looked through a builder's dumpy level at the reflection of an object off a distorted mirror; instead of looking straight at that same object!

It took a bit longer for the message to hit home for me, but finally hit home it did; i.e. that nearly everything we were told about the Christian churches was incorrect - particularly as regards bible scholarship. I can remember even being told that, "once you back your preacher into a corner over bible doctrine, he will probably say that The Bible is a lot of nonsense." It was even being touted by the JWs that the churches were claiming that "God was Dead."

The reality, however - as Terry discovered in one evening, and I found out over a longer period - was quite different.

Still, what can you expect from an outfit that has no scholarship, and nothing but disdain for academic learning?

Bill.

39

Did you beleive you were A intellectual when you were a JW

by jam in

jw
friends

i am embarrass to say when i was a jw and a elder i. thought i could sit down and speak on any subject with.

anyone intelligently.

i felt the schooling of the wt had.

Bungi Bill

I knew quite a few elders like Jam describes:

- i.e. just because they had been appointed an elder in the congregation, they seemed to think that they automatically knew more about every conceivable subject than the rest of us did.

The younger they were, the more pronounced this feeling of superiority seemed to be (One I recall even affected a distinctive peacock strut after his appointment).

As for me, I never considered myself anything other than "unlettered and ordinary" - just like the apostles! I certainly never bought into the idea that reading the Watchtower and Awake magazines gave you the equivalent of a college education (unless it was for a Diploma of Idiocy).

Bill.

23

Pennsylvania witnesses shot at

by Siddhashunyata in

jw
friends

http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20110501/news90/105010338/-1/news.

Bungi Bill

In the district where I lived when first contacted by the JWs, such incidents were not altogether unknown. Unfortunately, there are persons around who still own firearms, but are not in any fit mental or emotional state to be trusted with the things. Combine that with a serial nuisance such as the JWs, and the above can all too easily happen.

However, to argue with somebody who is threatening you with a weapon is one of the heights of stupidity. I have been held up at gunpoint (though not while in the field service). Not having any particular desire to be awarded a medal for getting myself shot, it was very much a case of saying "you win" to the gunman!

Bill.

40

For Those Who Went: How "Special" Was Sunday's "Special Talk?"

by Room 215 in

jw
friends

comments anyone?.

Bungi Bill

I didn't attend / wouldn't attend / already wasted far too of my life listening to such nonsense already!

However, of one thing you can be sure, this one would have been no more special than any of the other "special talks" that there have ever been !

Put in military terms, this special talk should have been entitled "Sierra Squared, Delta Squared." (As ladies are listening, I had better not translate that code!)

Bill.

31

My Experience as JW

by umadevi in

hello, i am new to this site and it is comforting to know that i am not the only one that has problem with wts.

i'm 36 and single parent with 8 year old son.

i work full time from 8am to 5pm in order to support both of us.

Bungi Bill

Speaking as somebody whose whole life has been totally messed up by following an elder's instructions to "find another job":

- don't, don't, don't take any notice of this jerk, or those like him!

As other posters have already stated, neither he nor anybody else is going to pay your bills for you, and your first concern is the welfare of your child.

Unfortunately, your experience is all too typical of those becoming involved with any cult:

- You first go through the "Lovebombing" phase, in which everyone appears to be very loving, helpful and understanding.

- Once, though, they feel that they have got you sufficiently snared, they start to reveal their true colors. In the case of the JWs, this includes their applying pressure on you to become an unpaid distributor of Watchtower literature.

Stevenson, in his 1967 book 1975 - Year of Doom? , stated "No other religious group would demand so much from its members, in return for so little." Many - even the majority - of us on this site found out the hard way that Stevenson's observations are all too true.

With this in mind, you might well want to consider whether any further involvement with them is wise!

Bill.